Can Landorus redeem Machamp Prime?

[JackOfSparks]

Noble Victories 74, Landorus.

Triumphant 95, Machamp Prime

It seems to me like these two cards were made for each other. Landorus can hit with a Gaia Hammer on turn 2 if you manage to discard a {F} on Turn 1, and if you have a full bench when you do, that's 150 damage on turn 3, on a Pokemon with (hopefully) 140 HP remaining.

I'm currently using it as a rogue deck, and I was blown away how well the combo works when you tie everything together. With Terrakion in there as a revenge killer, you get a field of Pokemon that use the same energy type, but have three different weaknesses.

Could such a blatant blitzkrieg strategy work? How would trainer lock effect it? What could the deck do to counter? Could this be enough to bring Machamp Prime back into the tiers? What decks would pose a problem?

 

[Rikko145]

It seems like it would work well. The problem lies in starting with Landorus and making sure you get that energy discarded. I commented on your list in the deck garage, and it looks good. I do not foresee trainer lock being a problem either, because this deck is fairly self-sufficient, relying more heavily on attacks and powers to set up a lot more than other decks. All in all, a pretty good idea if you ask me.

(By the way, Blitzkreig means "lightning warfare" in German. It was instituted by the Third Reich of Germany to surprise France, since they were prepared for slower trench warfare. The invention of the military tank played a huge role in this strategy, although the very first tanks were made in WWI, the "Big Willies" never exceeded 10 mph, and were designed solely to be moving cover for soldiers and to break through barbed wire. The faster tanks of WWII, the "Panzers", were then created to engage in battle quickly, hence the name lightning warefare, Blitzkreig. Man I love history.)

 

[scizorlicious]

The only problem is that there's not any energy acceleration for Fighting that you could use. Landorus' first attack isn't reliable, and after one Machamp is KO'd, it's hard to get back in it (although Terrakion could help there). It's a nice concept, I just think it would be too slow to work effectively.

 

[JackOfSparks]

The most reliable way to get a fighting energy in the graveyard is part of the reason that Trainer Lock can really hurt the deck: Engineer's Adjustments (or Professor Juniper, in a pinch). Keeping Donphan in the deck does provide a bit of wiggle room, but getting everything to go off without a hitch requires either a lot of luck, or absolutely superb deckbuilding.

I'm not sure what you mean about speed being a problem. If it's unreliable, it slows down, but 150 at turn 3 is pretty impressive, if it does work. That's a big if, and I think that's going to be the main problem. Everything needs to happen early-game, because if the opponent gets rolling it becomes very difficult to catch back up. Terrakion can cause the opponent's momentum to falter, and Donphan makes a nice stopgap.

It should be really interesting to see what Next Destinies does for/to this combo. (Spoiler: Mewtwo EX will shut it down.)

 

[Serperior]

This is a nice concept indeed. I agree: getting that first Energy discarded will be an issue. Sage's Training should be helpful here. Maybe you could do something with Electrode Prime here as well, because you have a three-Energy and a four-Energy attack you need to charge up. Consistently getting Machamps out will be rough with a bad start or if your opponent is running a fast deck. Terrakion will be lovely stall/revenge support as he is rather bulky while Retaliate does solid damage.

...then Mewtwo-EX will wreck you but if it's fun, why not?

 

[petertclo]

It should be really interesting to see what Next Destinies does for/to this combo. (Spoiler: Mewtwo EX will shut it down.)

Tech in a Mewtwo EX to counter that then...double colorless shouldn't be hard.

 

[Vulpix Yolk]

I honestly don't think that Landorus is going to save Machamp Prime. Landorus Machamp is going to rely pretty heavily on going first, because most decks are going to be able to out speed, and a lot of decks are capable of killing your Landorus by turn two, making you lose your "energy acceleration". It is also worth mentioning how badly Machamp Prime can be hurt by Pokémon Catcher, you need a Switch to get it out of your active, three retreat cost is heavy, and Catcher puts a halt to Fighting Tag. Even against match ups should be strong, such as Magnezone variants and Zekrom, there is a large chance you will lose, simply because they can out speed. Landorus Machamp is one of those decks that is always one turn behind, since there is nothing that it can do with one energy on the field. If your Landorus is killed turn 2 by something like a Zekrom, or Magnezone, you are going to have problems, because you will have no energy on your field. That means you are going to have to try to build Landorus up again, which means it is begging to get killed again, because it will be in your active position with all of the energies on your field on it. You know what I mean?

I strongly believe you will never get a Machamp out against a good player. You will either face an energy drought, or your Machops and Machamps will get Catcher killed. Even when Machamp is out, it isn't all that. You are going to hit for 150 damage, and then get one or two shotted. Magnezone can break that whole set up by simply burning three energy. Just about everything else will two shot you (assuming they don't have a grip of Pluspowers), some things can even take a hit from Machamp if only 4 benched Pokémon are damaged. I'm not even going to go into how badly Mewtwo EX shuts Machamp down.

If you or anyone else is still interested in Machamp Prime, I would strongly suggest playing a lot of Switch, and Terrakion as a back up attacker. It may even be worth it to test out Shaymin UL and Electrode Prime. they can help you get ahead on the energy situation you may encounter. As for discarding Energy, play Sage’s Training, and Junk Arm, and you will be fine.

 

[NeoCandy]

I think that Machamp has great tanking potential. Machamp has a great 150 HP, meaning he can take most hits. Also, due to fighting tag moveing the energy around, you can tag out a damaged Champ, then use Max Potion on it to heal all the damage away. Also, I feel that every one is saying that because of catcher it can't do much, but they seem to forget that Champ runs catcher as well. So, you have he same set up ruining abilty that others have, especially if Donphan is used. As for, Magne and friends match ups, sure they can OHKO all of your pokemon with Magne, but It takes 3 energy for each one[4 for Donphan]. After they use up 3 energy, you can simpy OHKO them with anything[spare a EQ'ing Donphan with no plus power.] Then Thunderous 2HKO's Machamp and Terrakion, and 3HKO's Landourus and Donphan. On the other hand, you OHKO Thunderus, spare Donphan EQ'ing against an Eviolited Thunderus. I have played against EllZones sevral times with decks with a Donphan tech that allmost 6-0'd him by itself; showing that Donphan alone can have a great impact agaisnt them.

In addtion Machamp works surpisingly well against Reshiram. Reshiram is simply slower than other decks and with added After Burner damage you don't have to have damage on all bench pokemon[If any]. I also see it doing well against spread decks and Durant. Against Spread decks [AKA: CaKE] You are both a little slow, although they can be faster than you, it usualy involes the explouding and giveing you a prize. Then you simply have to do your best to set up Machamps and use Fighting tag and Max Potion keep them at bay. Against the Cobalion, you get 2 Machamps up and Fighting Tag out of Iron Breaker. Against Durant, you simply set up Landorus and use the Harvest to charge him up with the milled energy, then spam Gaia Hammer. The 80 can OHKO a non-eveiolited, Sp.{M}'d Durant, then spread 10. After 2 spreads you can OHKO a eveiolited, Sp. {M}'d Durant.

 

[Card Slinger J]

I can see this strategy working well with Donphan for taking out Basics and Vileplume to ensure none of your Pokes get Catchered, and If you really need to counter Mewtwo EX then just run Mewtwo EX. It's going to be a 1 or 2 of staple card in every deck so why not? I doubt it's going to be $100 like Tropical Beach right now, according to pre-order $60 is a fair price for Mewtwo EX.

I had a friend come 2nd place at Cities with Donphan/Machamp/Landorus/Vileplume. It seems to have amazing synergy once you get the right cards going for it but yeah Mewtwo EX does pose a threat to it and shouldn't be that hard to run in it. One of my other friends who runs DonChamp didn't do so well at Cities cause he didn't run Landorus and Vileplume in his variant.

 

[Briaah]

Sounds like a really great strategy! I think everyone else has already stated the greatness of it and there's not really much I can add to that.

As far as the turn 1 energy problem goes there are things you can run to help with that. I'm thinking Sage, Junk Arm, Engineer, and I think someone above mentioned Electrode Prime? He might be an option. Of course, with Sage and Engineer you use up your supporter for the turn but if you manage to have a Junk Arm..I'm thinking like, maybe run some Energy Search as well so like you can use Energy Search to get an energy if needed then discard it with Junk Arm and get the Energy Search back(ofc you could retrieve other things; that was just an example)

And as for Mewtwo EX; like everyone is saying if he turns out to be a big problem just tech him in.