TDK (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX / Kyurem)

[scizorlicious]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Right, what I'm saying is that there are other techs that apply to more matchups or counter one deck more solidly. If you had straight TDK with no counters or anything, your VirGen matchup would be at least 60/40. VirGen already has problems with TDK, which is its main setback.

There are just so many things to add in before Heatran. Just maximizing consistency is really important. If I decided to put more techs in, I would add Silver Mirror before Heatran. That gives Genesect AND other TDKs a lot more problems than Heatran.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Right, what I'm saying is that there are other techs that apply to more matchups or counter one deck more solidly. If you had straight TDK with no counters or anything, your VirGen matchup would be at least 60/40. VirGen already has problems with TDK, which is its main setback.

There are just so many things to add in before Heatran. Just maximizing consistency is really important. If I decided to put more techs in, I would add Silver Mirror before Heatran. That gives Genesect AND other TDKs a lot more problems than Heatran.

So Frozen city maximizes consistency?

 

[Slowbro]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

I'm honestly not going to waste my time with this argument. I'd actually you rather play Heatran, and please go to the Battle Roads I do using Heatran. Thanks!

Calm down. Next post like this that doesn't add to the discussion gets a warning. This is a discussion forum, there is literally no reason to get mad or act like this if someone disagrees with you, no matter how wrong you think they are.


As much as I would love to use Heatran, it just isn't worth it in my book. The energy cost isn't that low, VG has outs to OHKO Heatran, the matchup really isn't that bad anyway, and as has been said, teching for specific matchups is generally a bad idea unless you have a deck with lots of extra space, which by no means does Plasma have.

How does that seem like I'm mad? I'm perfectly calm. I just didn't want to continue this argument anymore because I knew we weren't getting anywhere, and I added a joke at the end. How does that make it seem like I'm mad or I need to calm down?


What are everyone's thoughts on basic energy in this? I like 2 water and 1 lightning.

 

[Camoclone]

Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Calm down. Next post like this that doesn't add to the discussion gets a warning. This is a discussion forum, there is literally no reason to get mad or act like this if someone disagrees with you, no matter how wrong you think they are.


As much as I would love to use Heatran, it just isn't worth it in my book. The energy cost isn't that low, VG has outs to OHKO Heatran, the matchup really isn't that bad anyway, and as has been said, teching for specific matchups is generally a bad idea unless you have a deck with lots of extra space, which by no means does Plasma have.

How does that seem like I'm mad? I'm perfectly calm. I just didn't want to continue this argument anymore because I knew we weren't getting anywhere, and I added a joke at the end. How does that make it seem like I'm mad or I need to calm down?


What are everyone's thoughts on basic energy in this? I like 2 water and 1 lightning.

Yup 2 water 1 lightning is what I use...

 

[scizorlicious]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Right, what I'm saying is that there are other techs that apply to more matchups or counter one deck more solidly. If you had straight TDK with no counters or anything, your VirGen matchup would be at least 60/40. VirGen already has problems with TDK, which is its main setback.

There are just so many things to add in before Heatran. Just maximizing consistency is really important. If I decided to put more techs in, I would add Silver Mirror before Heatran. That gives Genesect AND other TDKs a lot more problems than Heatran.

So Frozen city maximizes consistency?

No, but it's a more versatile and useful tech. It's a counter stadium, which is useful in nearly every matchup, and helps get OHKOs on EXs - in particular Keldeo and Black Kyurem EX - even without Bangle. I'm saying I would add that in before Heatran EX.

Heatran EX is just so specific. You can't play it against any other deck, and the risk of starting with it is low, but if you do, other matchups become so much harder.

 

[Lil Wayne]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

How about the idea of Lasers? I play them and I like them but I would also like to play an Extra Skyla, x2 Tool Scrappers, x2 Frozen City Gyms and something else instead but I use them and it helps me with the decks that have more hp. What do you think?

 

[scizorlicious]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Laser is nice against anything but VirGen, which is why a lot of people have stopped playing it.

With Kyurem and 2 or 3 Deoxys, the extra 30 damage for a OHKO on an EX used to come from LaserBank, but now Silver Bangle is filling that role.

 

[Daelum]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

How do you guys feel about replacing Lugia EX with Moltres EX? I know the format lacks a good fire type Pokemon, and people strongly suggest just sticking with Kyurem and some extra Trainers, but I want a fire type Pokemon. And before you suggest Heatran EX, no. I think it's not worth worth the energy cost and the fact that you can't get it set up turn 1 like Moltres EX is a no-go for me.

 

[Lil Wayne]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Laser is nice against anything but VirGen, which is why a lot of people have stopped playing it.

With Kyurem and 2 or 3 Deoxys, the extra 30 damage for a OHKO on an EX used to come from LaserBank, but now Silver Bangle is filling that role.

Do you think it's a good play still? I posted my list on deck help. If you have any suggestions please let me know. You seem like you know the deck.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Laser is nice against anything but VirGen, which is why a lot of people have stopped playing it.

With Kyurem and 2 or 3 Deoxys, the extra 30 damage for a OHKO on an EX used to come from LaserBank, but now Silver Bangle is filling that role.

Do you think it's a good play still? I posted my list on deck help. If you have any suggestions please let me know. You seem like you know the deck.

That really depends on your local metagame... If you expect to see a lot of VirGen then the answer will be no.

 

[Lil Wayne]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

I haven't been to a tournament since a battle road last spring... so I am not sure at all... I am guessing that it will be played though. Why doesn't it work against Virgen (clever name XD)?

 

[Machamp The Champion]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

I haven't been to a tournament since a battle road last spring... so I am not sure at all... I am guessing that it will be played though. Why doesn't it work against Virgen (clever name XD)?

Because Virizion EX's ability prevents your Pokemon with Grass Energy on them from being affected by special conditions. That's like 50% of the reason people are playing Silver Bangle now.

 

[Lil Wayne]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

I haven't been to a tournament since a battle road last spring... so I am not sure at all... I am guessing that it will be played though. Why doesn't it work against Virgen (clever name XD)?

Because Virizion EX's ability prevents your Pokemon with Grass Energy on them from being affected by special conditions. That's like 50% of the reason people are playing Silver Bangle now.

Oh ok. I have a Virizion EX FA but I never really looked at it before... Thank you for that information and I see why people aren't using laser anymore.

 

[Slowbro]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Meh, a good number of decks still play laser, especially if they have a way to get around Genesect/Virizion. An argument can be made for lasers in plasma especially.

 

[Blah]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

The primary wall I always hit when I think about adding Lasers back into this is that you run out of room for other stuff that you need this format, the obvious one being Tool Scrapper. While Silver Mirror isn't going to be THAT popular (in fact you might not even need to run heavy counts of it depending on your meta), finding room for 2 Scrapper is nigh impossible if you're running the full six cards needed for Lasers and Virbank. That combined with the issue with V/G means I think Bangle is probably a better option right now.

 

[Slowbro]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

The primary wall I always hit when I think about adding Lasers back into this is that you run out of room for other stuff that you need this format, the obvious one being Tool Scrapper. While Silver Mirror isn't going to be THAT popular (in fact you might not even need to run heavy counts of it depending on your meta), finding room for 2 Scrapper is nigh impossible if you're running the full six cards needed for Lasers and Virbank. That combined with the issue with V/G means I think Bangle is probably a better option right now.

I agree. Bangle is better IMO, but an argument can still be made for Lasers.

 

[exdarkrai01]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX / Kyurem)

Plasma with lasers vs plasma with no lasers will almost always win in bo3. Its a meta call IMO.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX / Kyurem)

Plasma with lasers vs plasma with no lasers will almost always win in bo3. Its a meta call IMO.

Wait, which one will in in BO3? It's not very clear which one you're saying.

 

[scizorlicious]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX / Kyurem)

He's saying that plasma with lasers would win. I wouldn't say it would almost always win a bo3, as there's enough luck in the mirror that can really go either way, but it would have a distinct advantage.

On the other hand, if the other Plasma ran Silver Mirror in lieu of lasers, it would be significantly more even.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

RE: Plasma (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX / Kyurem)

He's saying that plasma with lasers would win. I wouldn't say it would almost always win a bo3, as there's enough luck in the mirror that can really go either way, but it would have a distinct advantage.

On the other hand, if the other Plasma ran Silver Mirror in lieu of lasers, it would be significantly more even.

Oh, okay. If that's the case, "every time" has already been proven wrong. In the Klazsynski open, there was a recorded game of Plasma with Lasers and Plasma with Bangles and the Lasers one.